Minutes

TRANSPORTATION SAFETY COMMISSION

March 31, 2009

The Vienna Transportation Safety Commission (TSC) met in regular session on March 31, 2009, in the Council Chamber at Vienna Town Hall, 127 Center St., S., Vienna, Virginia. Chairman Kenney opened the meeting at 8:00 p.m. with the following members present: Andrew Meren, J. Leonard Ignatowski, Frank Johnson, Jill Decker, Sharon Baum, Howard Springsteen and Tara Voigt. Also present were Matthew Randall, engineer for the Department of Public Works (DPW), Sergeant Mike Reeves of Vienna Police Department (VPD) and TSC Clerk April Masters.

Approval of the Minutes

The minutes of the February 24, 2009 TSC meeting were unanimously approved.

Receipt of Petitions from the Public

Amy Byrne of 9210 Dellwood Dr questioned the TSC on how she can keep people informed on what the Town is doing to improve traffic on Marshall Rd. She knows there have been some steps made to improve Metro directional signage but she is not sure what is going on with the bus issue or having an engineering study done.

Mr. Randall said he met with VDOT to discuss striping Marshall Rd for 2 lanes. If the Town can get 10ft for each lane, VDOT does not have a problem with Vienna stripping for 2 lanes but as of now there is only 19ft from the yellow line to the gutter pan. He has also discovered that an extra traffic light would not be required. If the Town moves the yellow line over a foot or 2 they need to make sure buses making the right turn off of Nutley St will have enough room. DPW is planning on repaving Marshall Rd at the end of the summer or early fall so none of these changes will be made until then. When observing the intersection the VDOT representative and himself did not notice any issues with the timing of the light but VDOT did say they would look into seeing if they have the funds to put in a second loop at the second stop bar. He has plans to get with Ken Campo soon to determine the turning ratio required for buses.

Commissioner Voigt asked Mr. Randall if there is enough space from gutter to gutter to add the right turn lane on Marshall Rd and Mr. Randall responded that there is plenty of space if the yellow line can be moved but the Town first needs to make sure the buses will be able to make the turn.

Commissioner Springsteen said he has been talking to a representative with Metro who surveyed the site and emailed back a sign that will be going over Rt. 66.

Ms. Byrne said she still thinks there should be another sign on the right; there is such a short merge area that people coming off of Rt. 66 might miss the first sign while they are concentrating on merging.

Ms. Byrne informed the TSC that she is on the Vienna Aquatic Club (VAC) board and when they did a survey of the neighborhood they got lots of responses from people who said they would like a mirror at the entrance to the VAC so people pulling in don’t hit pedestrians or bicyclists coming off of the nearby curve. However, she has heard that it is hard to get a mirror in Vienna. She has asked the VAC why the entrance cannot be moved to the straight-a-way and the VAC responded that if the Town could meet them half way when they repave and poor an apron they would consider it. The point is that if the Town is going to repave the street they should make sure to take the time to consider other improvements.

Commissioner Voigt said that the VAC has asked the Town before if they could change the entrance and were denied.

Commissioner Springsteen gave his opinion that the new director of Public Works is more receptive to these types of requests so it might be worthwhile to bring it up again. He does not think you can use a mirror on public property.

Mr. Randall explained that you cannot use a mirror on public property because it is not considered safe at night when it will be reflecting headlights.

Commissioner Baum suggested that a ‘Hidden Entrance’ sign could be put up.

Mr. Byrne said there is also a problem with foliage because of the park nearby.

Chairman Kenney said that he will look into who he needs to contact to get the foliage trimmed.

Ms. Byrne questioned why there can’t be some of the pedestrian crossing signs in the crosswalk at Marshall Rd School like she sees at the other schools.

Commissioner Voigt said the Town bought some of the portable ones for the crossing guard and that she is responsible for putting them out.

Ms. Byrne said the crosswalk could use one even when it’s not school hours.

Commissioner Springsteen responded that the Town can only afford to put them at major crosswalks.

Ms. Byrne asked if they could get a sign that says ‘Yield to Pedestrian under Penalty of $250 Fine’ like Louise Archer Elementary has.

Chairman Kenney responded he is not sure why there is one at Louise Archer Elementary; he was under the impression that they were only placed at the entrances to Town.

Sergeant Reeves explained that the State Code requires people to stop for pedestrians in a crosswalk whether there is a sign or not. The fine is the same as well. However, properly placed flashing ‘School Zone’ signs can increase fine amounts by $250.

Mr. Randall interjected that he noticed when out on Marshall Rd that there are a lot of signs in the area already. The Town tries to be cognizant of sign pollution because if you get too many signs in one location the message gets lost.

Commissioner Springsteen suggested that someone talk to the crossing guard about placing the sign in the crosswalk.

Ms. Byrne showed the TSC the Facility Capacity Study for Fairfax County public schools. It showed that the population of Vienna schools is going to increased and Marshall Rd School is expected to be expanded as a result. The addition planned might go on the blacktop is or it might go on the field. If it goes on the field and the blacktop is open she would like to see the school do a study of traffic flow and possibly open up the blacktop area to traffic.
Commissioner Ignatowski suggested that when this project is wrapped up someone should inform the Public Information Officer who could write a short press release detailing the level of cooperation involved between the Town, the school system and VDOT. You usually only see negative information in the newspaper and this is a good example of government agencies working together to resolve a citizen concern.

Proposed Revisions to The Citizens’ Guide to Traffic Calming in Vienna

Chairman Kenney reported that the TSC is now into its 4th revision of The Citizens’ Guide to Traffic Calming in Vienna. The information is basically the same as the previous revision; on page 3, under 1.i. the name has been changed to ‘radar speed indicators’, on page 4 items under 2 and 3 have been reorganized along with page 5 under item 4 where items A - Q where previously listed in no particular order and it has since been broken out into ‘street segment data’, ‘vicinity data’ and ‘other considerations’. A section has also been added for engineering considerations which is regarding VDOT standards on traffic calming spacing, restrictive entrance signage and stop signs. The goal is to reorganize the information into subparagraphs rather than have it all mixed together. Item 7 was omitted as discussed at the previous meeting.

Bob Bingham of 304 Jean Pl, NE said that he was previously on the TSC for 12 years, including the time when The Citizens’ Guide to Traffic Calming in Vienna was originally developed. They had tried to create a balance between giving the citizens an avenue in which to air their traffic and/or transportation concerns and not allowing too much of an opportunity for frivolous complaints. Toward the end of his tenure he started having doubts about some of the traffic calming measures being approved and implemented. The speed limit in Town is 25mph but no one, including himself, drives it. Most people drive about 30mph. The way the criteria reads now, traffic calming will be considered if 15% of people are driving 30mph or more. That is pretty lax. When he was on the TSC the VPD’s unofficial policy was that once you are 10mph over the speed limit you are eligible for a ticket. The 2 policies seem to be in conflict if you are eligible for traffic calming at 30mph but the police don’t consider you eligible for a ticket.

Chairman Kenney responded that his understanding is that it is assumed in the traffic engineering world that 15% of traffic is going to speed. That is why the 85th percentile speed is reviewed to see the average speed at which the rest of traffic is going. Speeding is considered a problem once that speed gets to 5mph or more over the posted speed limit. There are some jurisdictions that set their parameters slightly higher. The TSC has set their 85th percentile speed minimum standard at 31mph.

Mr. Bingham said that based on these standards he suspects that all long, straight streets in Vienna will be eligible for traffic calming. Would it be possible to apply the new standards to some of these streets and see what the results are? He would bet the streets would qualify but the people currently living there have not requested traffic calming because they do not feel there is a problem.

Chairman Kenney agreed that it is possible but reminded Mr. Bingham that one aspect of the petition process he is forgetting is that before the TSC will consider a petition 75% of the residents on the street have to be in support.

Mr. Bingham said he agrees with the effectiveness of speed tables but wonders where to draw the line.

Chairman Kenney agreed and explained that is why the TSC are trying to set basic minimum standards.

Mr. Bingham said another of his concerns is that the traffic counters are not accurate.

Chairman Kenney explained that if a car stops or backs over the classifier it will give a false reading.

Sergeant Reeves added that he has made some calls and found that the classifiers do have a mistake ratio but it is no more than any other system that is currently available.

Mr. Bingham asked what that mistake ratio is and Sergeant Reeves responded that anywhere from 2-5% of the cars going over the classifiers will give a false reading and it is mainly due to people stopping or backing up over them. When you see a read indicating 70mph that is what it is due to.

Mr. Bingham said that when he was on the TSC they used the VDOT standards for stop signs. Has that changed?

Chairman Kenney answered that the TSC has updated The Citizens’ Guide to Traffic Calming in Vienna based on VDOT standards.

Mr. Bingham responded that he thinks the reality of the situation is that very few of the existing stop signs in Town would meet the standards.

Chairman Kenney replied that some of the stop signs have been put in because of a blind intersection where you can’t see cars coming the other way.

Commissioner Springsteen agreed with Mr. Bingham that some of the stop signs would not meet criteria but they cannot be removed now without a petition.

Mr. Bingham said that the stop sign at Park St and Hilltop Rd is one that he doesn’t think would meet criteria and Chairman Kenney said that is an example of one that was placed in due to a sight issue.

Chairman Kenney said he recently did a survey at that intersection to see how many people actually stop; out of the 192 vehicles he observed, 35% came to a complete stop, 46% did a rolling stop and 19% did not stop at all.

Mr. Bingham asked Chairman Kenney why he thinks that is and Chairman Kenny acknowledged that it is probably due to the fact that some people feel the stop sign in unnecessary. However, people run other stop signs in Town as well. He just happen to survey this one because it was convenient to him.

Mr. Bingham said he feels another problem is that if a person submits a petition and it doesn’t meet the criteria, there is still a public meeting. He doesn’t think that should be the case.

Commissioner Springsteen explained that the TSC does not have the final say on matters, the Town Council does; for example, the TSC voted no to speed humps on Walnut La and the Town Council put in two.

Commissioner Johnson added that he feels it is important to at least hear peoples’ concerns. Even if the street is not eligible for a speed hump the TSC can come up with other options. It also helps for people to feel heard and have the reasons why they are not eligible for a speed hump explained to them rather than a simple denial.

Chairman Kenney agreed that if someone takes the time to put together a petition the TSC should at least hear their case.

Mr. Bingham argued that Vienna has way more traffic calming than Fairfax County. Is Vienna safer?

Chairman Kenney countered than compared to Arlington County Vienna has less.

Commissioner Springsteen offered that Arlington County is one side of the continuum and Fairfax County is the other with Vienna in the middle. Also, Vienna has the capacity to do things much quicker whereas Fairfax County has to go through VDOT.

Chairman Kenney stated that when he was looking into other jurisdictions he found that Montgomery County had a huge backlash after putting in what citizens felt were too many speed humps and have since set the bar so high that almost no street qualifies. He does not want that to happen in Vienna. Speed tables should be available to streets that genuinely need them. Chairman Kenney stated that after applying the new criteria to the 17 speed humps that are currently in Town, using Before and After data, 12 of them pass.

Mr. Bingham stated that he would like to see more enforcement on residential streets.

Sergeant Reeves responded that there are usually 6 officers patrolling during the day and 4 at night. You can sit on Beulah Rd for an hour and write 4 tickets where as only 1 car might drive down a residential street in an hour. While writing tickets is not necessarily the main point of enforcement the VPD has to do its best to distribute their resources effectively.

Commissioner Springsteen added that the Town has recently bought some radar speed indicator boxes that have been moving around Town and they do a pretty good job of slowing down traffic.

Mr. Bingham thanked the TSC for listening to all of his concerns; he now feels reassured. He would urge the TSC to test drive their standards by gathering data from streets where there are no apparent problems and see how they compare.

Commissioner Springsteen made a motion to approve the revised copy of The Citizens’ Guide to Traffic Calming in Vienna, Commissioner Voigt seconded the motion and it was unanimously approved.

Reports of the Commissioners

Commissioner Ignatowski mentioned that he saw traffic counters on Rt. 123 near Joe’s Pizza and wondered why?

Mr. Randall answered that it might be the engineering company the Town has hired.

Commissioner Ignatowski asked if the Town maintains a map that shows all traffic restrictions and Mr. Randall said that it does not.

Commissioner Baum said that traffic on Locust St still gets very backed up due to people trying to turn left onto Park St. It is hard to see traffic coming.

Chairman Kenney agreed and said that a big problem is a raised tree planter that is on private property. He thinks the Town has requested that it be removed but received no response from the owner.

Mr. Randall said he thought that request would have gone through the Department of Planning and Zoning but he will check.

Report of the Chairman

Chairman Kenney said that last month the TSC voted to reelect him as Chairman but a Vice Chair is still needed. He asked Commissioner Meren if he is interested and Commissioner Meren said he is.

Commissioner Springsteen made a motion to elect Commissioner Meren as Vice Chair, Commissioner Voigt seconded the motion and it was unanimously approved by the TSC.

Chairman Kenney said he has been doing a study of traffic accidents around Town. Looking at the period from June 24, 2008 – January 26, 2009 the highest count at an intersection was 25 accidents at Maple Ave and Courthouse Rd, there were 15 at Nutley St and Maple Ave and 5 at Church St and Lawyers Rd. He is currently working on accident data from 2005 – 2008; on average there have been 463 accidents a year.

Chairman Kenney closed the meeting at 9:36pm.

Respectfully submitted,

Emily L. Allen
TSC Clerk

Town Government  / Town Services  / Regulations & Ordinances  / Town Information  / Town Departments  / Mailbox