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Minutes
TRANSPORTATION SAFETY COMMISSION
March 25, 2008
MINUTES
The Vienna Transportation Safety Commission (TSC) met in regular session March 25, 2008 in the Council Chamber at Vienna Town Hall, 127 Center Street, South, Vienna, Virginia. Chairman Stephen Kenney opened the meeting at 8:00 p.m. with the following members present: Richard Denbow, Sharon Baum, Howard Springsteen, Jill Decker, Tara Voigt, Andrew Meren and Frank Johnson. Leonard Ignatowski was absent. Also present were Matthew Randall of Department of Public Works (DPW), Sergeant Mike Reeves, and TSC Secretary Jil Havan-Ngo
Approval of the Minutes
After some changes were suggested by the chairman and commissioners, the minutes of the February 26, 2008 meeting were unanimously approved.
Receipt of Petitions and Communications from the Public
Craig Einsel of 309 East Street, N.E suggested adding restricted hours on Fairway Drive, East Street, Church Street, Ayer Hill and Creek Crossing. Also all of these streets are cut-through traffic. He said often the police department would put out a speed trailer that gives out speed which was much higher than the actual speed limit. Chairman Kenney said that the speed trailer is there to inform drivers of their speed, just like the removable ones that used to be on the telephone poles. He asked DPW Engineer,Matt Randall and VPD,Sgt Reeves on where the citizens can request a trailer? Sgt Reeves answered that the speed trailer can be requested from the police department and it’s only allocated for 24 hours. However, the removable telephone pole speed device can be requested through DPW. He thinks they can allocate it for at least a week.
Petition for Speed Humps on 200 and 300 blocks of Church Street, N.E
Norman Grandstasf of 345 Church Street, N.E said originally he petitioned for two speed humps but got only one installed. He felt the weekends, afternoons and evenings are the most dangerous time because the drivers seemed to fly by. He has heard a rumor that the speed hump is being considered to be removed altogether. In response he got 100 percent signatures on both blocks to revisit the installation of two speed humps. On 200 and 300 blocks, the humps are currently at the highest point of the block that causes some problems. Once the drivers see a green light at the 300 block, their speed would increase and they would fly by the speed hump in order to catch the light. He would like for TSC to consider two speed humps or speed tables on one street. Chairman Kenney commented that the town has a policy that all the new speed humps in town will be speed tables.
Mary Ellen Larkins of 317 Church Street thanked TSC for all they do for the town citizens. In 1997 and 1998, she believed the citizens did ask for two speed humps on the 200 to 300 block of Church Street and restricted hours were also included. Town Council didn’t approve the restricted hours but TSC asked for two speed humps, at the end of the 200-300 blocks of Church Street, N.E but only one speed hump was installed. Mrs. Larkins said two speed humps or speed tables are a lot more effective than one speed hump on 200 and 300 blocks of Church Street, N.E. She also asked if Church Street, N.E is going to be resurfaced again. Chairman Kenney said that the Church Street, N.E is scheduled to be resurfaced in the fall of 2008.
Dan Mulville of 200 Church Street, N.E. believed the current speed hump has reduced the speed on Church Street, N.E. More than one speed hump or speed table might have some benefit for overall of the street. He recommended having them before the hills of 200 and 300 blocks of Church Street.
Pam Keene of 344 Church Street, N.E. supported more than one speed hump on the 200 block of Church Street due to high volume of pedestrians.
Mr. Matt Ammann of 343 Church Street, N.E. requested a second speed control device installed on Church Street, N.E. for pedestrian safety.
Chairman Kenney requested that petition signage on the 200 and 300 blocks of Church Street be requested in the proper location to make sure the citizens are well informed of TSC decision. Based on the email TSC received from the citizens, the studies from ATCS on the Church Street, N.E were inaccurate. He would like to get 4 new traffic control studies at the half way point at each end of the speed humps along Church Street, N.E. from the Vienna Police Department. Mrs. Larkins commented that the counts won’t be accurate because Beulah Road is still closed. Chairman Kenney recognized the inaccuracy of the studies but commented that the traffic flow is still significant. The studies would be a 24 hour study done between Tuesday and Thursday. Sgt Reeves responded that the report from ATCS is more accurate than the studies from Vienna Police Department. Chairman Kenney recognized that it might have some false reads but the drivers are slowing down when they see the site of the large tube on the street.
Mrs. Larkins said she has sent an email to Town Clerk Carol Orndoff on November 7th to inform the town that the traffic control studies done by the VPD is great for the study of the volume but not for speed. She doesn’t believe the email got anywhere. She was concerned that the citizens have to come back for another meeting on Church Street, N.E. due to the new studies. Chairman Kenney informed her that only the person originated the petition will have to come back.
Commissioner Springsteen agreed with Mrs. Larkins in regard to the studies done by VPD. He commented that TSC tries to keep the decisions as open as possible and also the town won’t make a decision until the fall.
Mrs. Larkins said that if the town replaced the speed hump with one speed table, it will cause more problems because a speed table is lower. Chairman Kenney believed that speed humps and speed tables have the same effectiveness. At the minimum, the citizens on Church Street, N.E. will get their old speed hump back, roughly at the same location.
After last month meeting, the Chairman, ATCS consultant, Mrs. Larkin and few others visited the 200 to 300 blocks and 400 to 500 blocks of Church Street, N.E. The Chairman said the traffic consultant suggested two speed humps for the 200 block of Church Street. The current speed hump is at 229 Church Street, N.E. It would be better to place it at 233 due to physical geography of the location. On the 300 block, the consultant recommended the speed hump to be placed at the slope of the hill because at the crest of the hill, traffic will naturally slow down. Due to the length of 300 block of Church Street, N.E. the consultant suggested two speed humps.
Chairman Kenney responded that the 200 block is too short of a street to have two speed humps, and if following the guideline, there should be 300 feet between the speed hump and the intersection, and the speed humps should be 300 feet apart from each other. He felt that the 300 block make a lot more sense to have two speed humps than the 200 block. His recommendation was based on the guideline from design and application for speed humps published by ITE (Institution of Transportation Engineers) on page 11 of the Traffic Study Draft.
Commissioner Voigt would like to know whether the consultant had suggested on where the speed humps should be placed on the 300 block of Church Street, N.E. Chairman Kenney responded that the consultant didn’t mention the specific placement of the speed humps. Chairman Kenney said from the intersections going back 300 feet, the speed hump would be at the peak of the hill and almost at the end of the intersection.
Commissioner Voigt suggested informing the residents of the new placement of the speed humps. From past experience the residents of Park Street were in favor of speed humps as long as the speed humps aren’t in front of their houses. Mr. Grandstasf said he knows the residents at the center of 300 block of Church Street, N.E to Beulah Road would be okay if the speed hump were placed in the front of their home. Chairman Kenney said that the residents at 349, 350 and 353 of Church Street, N.E. will be impacted along with houses on 224 and 229 of Church Street, N.E.
Mr. Grandstasf requested the Vienna Police Department studies be done after the rush hours because during the rush hours traffic is at a stand still. Commissioner Springsteen said that the studies are broken down by the hours.
Ms. Pam Keene suggested a strip crosswalk for Church Street, N.E. Chairman Kenney wouldn’t recommend a mid-block crosswalk because it’s too dangerous. He recommended a crosswalk at the stop sign for safety reasons.
Mrs. Larkins said that in Arlington County, on South Kensington Street, the speed humps or speed tables are placed roughly 115 to 120 feet apart and this street doesn’t even have the stop signs. She understood that TOV has a guideline to follow but Arlington County often uses this placement distance throughout their streets. Chairman Kenney said the purpose of the guideline is for drivers to naturally come to a stop at the stop signs. He also said the studies have shown drivers would speed up between speed humps or after speed humps.
Commissioner Springsteen asked Mrs. Larkins if she supported two speed humps at the 200 and 300 blocks of Church Street, N.E. Mrs Larkins said she would. She also said once Beulah Road is done, there is going to be more cut-through traffic. The Town of Vienna needs to be proactive especially with the Tysons development and needs to think ahead of what it is going to be for the next 10 years. Chairman Kenney agreed with Mrs. Larkins wanting two speed humps, but he wanted to have a legitimate reason to have a speed hump put on a street.
Commissioner Springsteen said these items listed will be presented to the Town Council because the consultant has already made recommendation for two speed humps.
Commissioner Denbow suggested having Town Council hear the Church Street, N.E. requests as soon as possible.
Chairman Kenney deferred the 200 to 300 block of Church Street for the next month meeting. The only person who needs to come back for next month meeting regarding this petition is the person who made the petition.
Petition for Traffic Calming Measures for Church Street and East Street.
Julie Foley of 513 Council Court, N.E wanted to find out the status of the petition sent to TSC last year regarding traffic calming measures at the intersection on Church Street and East Street, N.E. These streets were not included with the recent Traffic Study. She thanked TSC for the adjustment of the stop sign and stop bar on Church Street, for cutting back the vegetation on Church Street and East Street, and for incorporating a speed limit sign on Church Street. She said the original petition had asked for a speed hump on Church Street, N.E and now she would like to recommend two speed tables. She suggested two raised crosswalks at the intersection of East Street and Church Street, N.E and an awareness sign. She recommended a yellow line from the lights on Church Street to East Street and to sharpen the corner so drivers won’t swing into the other lane when making a turn. She suggested a median strip at the Church Street and East Street intersection in place of the turning lane. Chairman Kennedy asked Mrs. Foley on how often traffic gets backed up on the left turning lane. She said she is not home during the day but she doesn’t see it get backed up often in the evenings. Chairman Kenney told Mrs. Foley that the town is unable to provide a raised crosswalk for the road because it’s an emergency route. She thought Church Street was only used as an emergency route while Beulah Road is under construction. Chairman Kenney would like to find out whether this street is used for emergency route. She stated that a marked crosswalk would be fine with her too.
Mrs. Foley found trafficcalming.org. website to be useful, regarding traffic calming measures.
Mike Lenz of 201 East Street, didn’t want any structure changes on the corner of Church Street and East Street. Any changes regarding paint would be fine. Chairman Kenney would like to know why Mr. Lenz doesn’t want changes. Mr. Lenz said the changes aren’t necessary, since he has been there for 15 years and there is only one minor accident.
Earl Boyanton of 511 Council Court wanted to keep the all-way stop.
Mrs. Larkins would like to let everyone know that Church Street isn’t a truck route. She also mentioned that the consultant said the 400 block of Church Street could be a great street to work on for new ideas on traffic calming”, due to its wide road.
Reports of Commissioners
Commissioner Springsteen was concerned that some of the residents of East Street don’t want any speed humps or traffic calming devices on their street. He felt that the intersection of East Street and Church Street is a problem intersection. He recommended a median or speed table on Church Street. However, he would like to hear what the consultant recommended for this intersection.
Chairman Kenney reported that on the 400 to 500 blocks of Church Street, the consultant suggested the narrowing of the street with painted strips that included a yellow center lane. Due to the length of the road, he recommended a median in the middle of the road to divert the traffic around the median. On the intersection of East and Church Street, the consultant felt the turning radius going from Church Street, eastbound to southbound of East St encourages speeding. The consultant recommended taking the turning radius out completely. This will bring the “ADA ramp” farther out at a crossing point for pedestrians and it also create a safety area like an island for pedestrians at the northern side between East Street and Church Street. Currently there is no crosswalk on either Church Street or East Street. The consultant suggested moving the curve cut from the southern side of the intersection to the northern side of the intersection because there is a lot of traffic making the left turn going southbound coming out eastbound on Church Street. If they make an immediate right turn going southbound of East Street, drivers won’t be able to see pedestrians crossing. He didn’t make any recommendation on all-way stop or traffic cycle. Mr. Matt Randall, DPW engineer added that the consultant recommended a stop sign at the triangular area of East and Church Street. This sign will force drivers to stop at the intersection when coming out south of East Street and making a right onto Church Street.
Commissioner Springsteen asked how the stop sign is working. The Chairman said with the stop sign, it will create a triangular island and a resting place for pedestrians’ safety because the crosswalk is a long stretch. Chairman Kenney doesn’t know whether a yield sign or stop sign would be better but he will refer the issue to Public Works. Mr. Randall said the consultant recommend a median at this intersection to funnel the traffic and to narrow the turning lane and entrance lane.
Commissioner Johnson expressed concern about the right turn stop sign since it might back up the traffic. He wanted more clarification on the triangular island and the median. Chairman Kenney responded that the triangular island is for pedestrians resting area and the median is on the Church Street. If trucks need to make a left turn onto Church Street, going northbound from East Street, they can go over the median. Commissioner Johnson opposed a raised table on East Street.
Commissioner Voigt would like to have a double yellow striping from East Street to Beulah Road. She asked the DPW engineer if his department is going to repave Church Street at the Beulah Road section. Mr. Randall didn’t think DPW will repave the 400 to 500 blocks but he can check with DPW Director, Ms. Chu.
Chairman Kenney said trimming the foliage, moving the stop bar, and having a speed limit sign on the 400 block of Church Street have been previously recommended to the Town Manager and all have been done. Also a “Children at Play” sign was installed. However, the yellow line in the middle of Church Street, from East Street to Beulah Road, and a yellow recommended speed limit sign at the beginning of the S curve on East Street based on current town standards have not yet been done.
Commissioner Springsteen suggested doing the lines first before structure changes.
The Chairman recommended a yellow line down the center, a painted or an actual median with bollards at both ends and lane narrowing on both side of the street for the 400 to 500 blocks of Church Street. On the 200 block of East Street, he suggested lane narrowing, a dangerous curve sign, and painting of the speed limit sign on the northbound lane of East Street and westbound lane of Church Street. On the center lane, he suggested snow plow resistant reflectors. Commissioner Baum asked if the reflectors are visible on a snowy day. The Chairman didn’t know if they are visible, but the reflectors will catch the drivers’ attention when they drift onto the other lane. At the intersection of East Street and Church Street, he recommended an island, but stripes it for right now. He would like to have a build out to shorten the pedestrian travel distance. He was not in favor of all-way stop signs. Originally he leaned toward a traffic circle, but he was told it might be too confusing for people and might cause more problems. He suggested a crosswalk on the northern side of the intersection at Church Street. He would like to have a build out at the 100 block of Church Street to the south bound of East Street. He recommended a median on the Church Street side or a crosswalk with pylon.
Commissioner Meren said that a gentleman who spoke earlier in the meeting doesn’t want to alter the street. Chairman Kenney said it isn’t going to alter his property but he will defer this to Town Council or Public Works.
Commissioner Voigt said the items the Chairman listed can go to Public Works because only physical changes need to go to Town Council for approval. In that case the Chairman recommended a build out at Church and East Street and physical median at mid point.
Commissioner Meren suggested that the painting of the median on Church Street should be the first option. Chairman Kenney said the pylons would be cheaper than building an actual curve.
Commissioner Decker wondered if the residents would object to the speed limit sign on the street.
Chairman Kenney recommended adding the yellow line striping, narrowing striping, painting the median with a physical barrel with orange pylon for Church Street. At the entrance of Church Street and East Street, have a painted speed limit sign. Also in the middle of the street, reflectors would be added and a crosswalk at the northern side with the curve cut and ramp. Commissioner Johnson said if there is an additional stop sign at the crosswalk, it would provide a false sense of security for the pedestrians. The Chairman recommended a “Yield to Pedestrian” sign and paint the crosswalk median for the moment to create a center island for the pedestrian. Commissioner Denbow recommended painting the barrel in brick color.
Chairman Kenney motioned for the following on 400 and 500 blocks of Church Street: adding yellowing striping, lane narrowing, yellowing striping on the center, painted median with plastic bollards at mid-block, and painting a speed limit sign on the westbound lane of Church Street. On the 200 block of East Street, install reflectors down the center, add dangerous curve signage, and speed limit sign on the northbound lane. At the northern side of the intersection add the crosswalk with curve cut and handicap ramp. And add a crosswalk on the west side of the intersection. Commissioners Johnson and Springsteen suggest stripe painting instead of a build out at the turning radius from Church Street to East Street, South. Commissioner Johnson suggested informing the public if there are any structure changes to their streets. The Chairman continued with the motion: a painted median on the 500 block of Church Street intersection. Commissioner Springsteen asked if the consultant has made a recommendation on painted median. The Chairman said the consultant didn’t make any suggestion.
Commissioner Meren wanted to confirm that all the items the Chairman has mentioned have been about painting.
Mrs. Foley said the striping will only narrow the road. She is disappointed that it takes only one resident to disagree with the structure changes for the build out not to take place. She felt that Church Street residents aren’t demanding anything more than other residents; she just wanted pedestrians to cross the street safely. Chairman Kenney said the recommendation of the striping is to see how it works so the town won’t spend money on a build out. Commissioner Denbow and Baum said other streets in town have the striping and traffic does slow down.
Chairman Kenney said that if the town installed a built out curve, it only uses public land and it shouldn’t affect the resident’s private property.
Commissioner Springsteen concerned that only 57 percent of the residents on East Street are in favor of speed humps and if people aren’t living on the street; they are unable to get 75 percent of the petition on East Street. The Chairman considered the Council Court residents as part of East Street petition.
Commissioner Springsteen seconded the motion and it was unanimously approved.
Reports of the commissioners
Commissioner Baum asked if the town can get fake cameras installed to slow drivers down. The Chairman responded that once people find out they are fake cameras, they will speed through them.
Report of the Chairman
The Chairman asked if the town is pursuing red light cameras. Sgt Reeves said it’s up to the chief and there are two restrictions to the red light cameras. The paperwork needs to be processed in two weeks and it cost, the police department money to enforce it.
The Chairman requested a survey from the commissioners on traffic backup on Church Street and Lawyers Road.
He thanked everyone for coming.
The meeting was adjourned at 10:00p.m.
March 25, 2008 TSC Work Session
Comments from the Commissioners
Commissioner Baum was disappointed that the studies were done during the summer while the school is out and most people were out of town.
Commissioner Springsteen questioned page 3 of the second paragraph. He wondered if the consultant could use the Tennyson study in 1997 because it provided an excellent benchmark for what was done in those years. He said the first version had executive summary but the second draft didn’t. There are some issues Commissioner Springsteen had with page 4 under Data Collection. He suggested an automated speed monitor continue to be used as a traffic calming device. He said the second draft looks better than the first.
Commissioner Decker was disappointed that the study doesn’t include any residents input. Also, Follin Lane shouldn’t have been included in the study because designated for traffic to the Technology Park.
Commissioner Voigt agreed that the second draft looks better than the first one. Commissioner Voigt and Commissioner Meren said that the residents’ comments should be available in the appendix.
Chairman Kenney wanted to know if ATCS or DPW can elaborate on the last paragraph of page 5 under Eligibility Criteria. The Chairman’s name was misspelled, and this is Transportation Safety Commission not Traffic Safety Commission. On #4, of page 8, there were no suggestions from the consultant on any other streets beside Church Street and East Street, N.E. The before and after studies on speed humps and traffic calming devices that the Chairman has created weren’t included in the draft. He considered these good information for the residents to see. Some of the discrepancies were corrected on table 4 on existing speed humps from the previous one. The location of the map for speed humps on Figure 1 is also corrected from last draft but Elm Street is off by several houses. The Chairman thought some of the recommendations on Church Street and East Street was good on page 24 and 25. However, he didn’t see any suggestion on the 200 and 300 blocks of Church Street. The horizontal deflection and horizontal narrowing devices were good. He also suggested an automated monitor device to be used as an educational traffic calming devices. In the appendix B, the volume distribution is useful if printed in color. It would be better if the consultant identify which block or segment they were talking about because some of these blocks, such as Tapawingo Road and Church Street, N.E, are long.
Comments from the public
Mr. Matt Di Fore thought the second draft is a “step backward”. The minutes and comments should have been in the appendix. The executive summary should have been in the front. The consultant needed to pay attention to detail such as segments of the road, etc. He questioned how many comments were received and incorporated. He wanted to know if the commissioners get all the comments that were sent in. The Chairman confirmed the comments were copied via email. He would like to see a diagram of the eleven segments that the consultant looked at, also to show on a map so they are easy to understand. The consultant should have made a recommendation of some kind of the traffic circle on Church Street. This circle would slow the traffic down and serve as a safety zone. He said the consultant will only do what DPW asked them to do.
Cris Janoski of 306 Old Courthouse Road thanked TSC for the speed tables. The speed table helped slow down the traffic but the road still needs other devices beyond the second speed tables, and in between the tables and at the hill. The speed monitor, which was mounted on the road and showed drivers of their speed, was effective. People tend to speed after the second speed hump going into Fairfax County. She felt the top of the hill is most dangerous for accidents. Dealerships tend to use Old Courthouse Road, test drive their cars. Commissioner Springsteen said the consultant has suggested a permanent speed alert signal on Old Courthouse Road.
Alan Reuben 237 Old Courthouse Road felt the speed monitor has an impact on the drivers.
Mary Ellen Larkins said the consultants only delivered what the town asked. Why was the study done while Beulah Road and Branch Road are under construction? It will definitely affect the speed and the volume of the study. Perhaps the ATCS should change the guidelines of the study for the traffic calming study especially on minor arterial roads. According to the traffic study, morning and evening times are traffic at it worst. She disagreed with page 20 which said that Beulah Road has more cars and speed than Park Street. Trucks shouldn’t use Church Street as a cut-through road. She said the “jamar” equipments ATCS used to study speed are not useful because cars aren’t traveling at 14 mph on Church Street.
Chris Topaloski lives at the corner of Old Courthouse Road and Westbriar Drive, N.E. He said the study should have included this corner. He wanted further studies on two speed humps on Old Courthouse Road. There is high traffic coming and going out of Old Courthouse Road from Tysons. He also wanted to know what specifically can be done at the Westbriar Road and Old Courthouse Road intersection. He suggested a 4-way stop at the intersection or a designated DO NOT ENTER sign at peak time. Surrounding car dealerships often use Old Courthouse to test drive sport cars.
Bob Russell 9329 Old Courthouse Road got his car hit when leaving his driveway, as well as members of his family. He has presented his case to Fairfax County Department of Transportation (FCDOT) and Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT) and both couldn’t do anything to make the roads safer. Mr. Russell recommended a stop sign at Pine Valley where the Westerbriar School is. Even with the cross guard during the morning and afternoon didn’t help. He has suggested traffic lights and speed humps. FCDOT and VDOT agreed to none. He also recommended law enforcement to monitor the road and Fairfax County doesn’t have the man power for it. He said “traffic jamar” seemed to work. He also suggested a camera to record violators.
Respectfully submitted,
Jil Havan-Ngo, TSC Secretary